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Post by jeannietonyfan on Feb 16, 2007 16:21:03 GMT -5
Yep, exactly. He realized that this wasn't gonna be the kind of genie who would take being corked up in her bottle all the time; and realized that just because she was a genie didn't give him the right to be constantly ordering her around. Plus, you're right, I think he realized the power of Jeannie, and realized that maybe it wouldn't be the smartest thing to treat her as a genie, but treat her like a human being. No you said it well too! I was just expanding...  Yes, I agree in some of the early episodes he did. Precisely! Yes, you're probably right. |
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Post by jeannietonyfan on Feb 16, 2007 16:24:11 GMT -5
Just thought I'd add here regarding Sidney: I think he always had some kind of a fascination with genies and Middle East harem girls. His film "Dream Wife", which he scripted and directed and starred Cary Grant and Deborah Kerr, featured Grant as a man who goes on vacation in the Middle East and meets a beautiful Middle Eastern girl (dressed in a harem outfit) and is immediately awestruck by this woman and the fact that her culture states that she should do anything for her husband... meanwhile Grant's fiancee (Kerr) is an independent workaholic woman and so Grant decides to dump Kerr in favour of the Middle Eastern girl... he ends up going back to Kerr in the end, but the "comedy" is all about Grant envisioning having a slave, in effect, for a wife. So maybe this was the wavelength that Sidney was going for originally for IDOJ? Thank goodness it didn't or I doubt it would have even lasted past the pilot... Ewww... thank goodness indeed! If he'd written it that way, I highly doubt even the Pilot would have been approved and aired... Yeah, you're probably right... and just to let you know the movie "Dream Wife" was one of the very few Cary Grant movies that bombed at the box office... I wonder why...  |
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Post by Subspace on Feb 16, 2007 18:12:50 GMT -5
Yeah, you're probably right... and just to let you know the movie "Dream Wife" was one of the very few Cary Grant movies that bombed at the box office... I wonder why... Mmm... yeah, I wonder why indeed...  |
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Post by theduck on Feb 28, 2007 15:03:30 GMT -5
"it's annoying, isn't it?!? One would think that a person should research thoroughly and understand thoroughly a subject"
AMEN to THAT!!! I get tired of the "Jeannie calling him Master debate!" Dude let it go. She wasn't a slave, she could have gone anytime she wanted to go. She also wore a tiny skimpy outfit, but I don't hear anyone debating about THAT!!
Let's face it, Jeannie LOVED being Tony's Jeannie. She wanted to do stuff for him, and take care of him, and do magic for him. That is not exactly the picture of a slave. I think Jeannie II was more considered a salve to her Master.
The Duck
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Post by Subspace on Mar 4, 2007 12:24:30 GMT -5
AMEN to THAT!!! I get tired of the "Jeannie calling him Master debate!" Dude let it go. She wasn't a slave, she could have gone anytime she wanted to go. She also wore a tiny skimpy outfit, but I don't hear anyone debating about THAT!! Exactly! She could have gone anytime she wanted to, and indeed many times she was basically packed and going out the door by the time Tony stopped her and basically pleaded for her to stay. (For any skeptics: regarding the 'she could have gone anytime she wanted to' claim, in How to Be a Genie in Ten Easy Lessons she was basically prepared to take her bottle and leave Tony. She could do this by herself and she did not need Tony's permission to leave him. She did not even need to give him advance notice. Basically, if she wanted to go, she could go. In fact, that time she would have done so except that she and Tony both realized Roger's treachery at the last minute. How's that about whether she had free will to stay or leave? And this is only one example.) Plus, she didn't have to listen to Tony all of the time, and often openly defied Tony's wishes. That is not exactly the picture of a slave. She does obey Tony's wishes most of the time but only because she wants to, as his genie, not because she has to, as his slave or possession. Precisely! She LOVED Tony and LOVED being his Genie. That is why she never left him even though on many occasions she was close to doing so. Jeannie II seems the type of person/genie who likes to play those power games, remember she wanted Tony to be her new 'Master' but she wanted to effectively BE the Master in any relationship with Tony. By golly, she was going to make Tony listen to HER, not the other way around. As far as Jeannie II's relationship with her Master, that is also consistent with Jeannie's relationship with Tony. I think genies do have an inherent desire to obey their Masters but that can be overridden if necessary. Jeannie II also apparently has the choice of leaving her Master if she so desires. When her Master commanded her to get back in her bottle at the end of Jeannie or the Tiger, she did not obey immediately, either, as you would have expected if she was her Master's Slave. My guess is simply that genies have an inherent desire to obey their Masters and Jeannie II's Master simply was more controlling/dominating than Tony, leading to the slight differences we saw between their relationship and Tony/Jeannie's relationship. |
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Post by jeannietonyfan on Mar 4, 2007 14:39:43 GMT -5
You know that's really interesting and I've never thought about that before... Tony, even if he had ordered Jeannie to stay forever, (if he had been an overbearing master) couldn't have the power over Jeannie to do this, because she could have just blinked away. Although maybe Hadji had the power to order genies back to their masters? Exactly!! |
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Post by Subspace on Mar 4, 2007 16:16:02 GMT -5
You know that's really interesting and I've never thought about that before... Tony, even if he had ordered Jeannie to stay forever, (if he had been an overbearing master) couldn't have the power over Jeannie to do this, because she could have just blinked away. Although maybe Hadji had the power to order genies back to their masters? I've never really thought about this that much, and canon information from the show only goes so far. In There Goes the Best Genie I Ever Had Masters are shown to have absolute authority over their Genies' fate. However, as per How to Be a Genie in Ten Easy Lessons, Always on Sunday, One of Our Bottles is Missing, and a whole slew of other IDOJ episodes, Genies appear to be able to openly defy their Masters' wishes and pack up and go if they so desired. Additionally, in My Poor Master, the Civilian we see that Genies can purposely deceive their Masters - with premeditated intent too! - without any apparent consequence. The only explanation I can think of to resolve this seeming contradiction is that normally Genies do not have to obey their Masters at all, although they probably have an innate, subconscious desire to obey (which can be consciously overridden). Even Jeannie II could apparently leave her Master for Tony if Tony would take her. (Ex: Jeannie or the Tiger) However, to ensure that Genies did not run amuck and take the Blue Djinn's advice in Tales of the Arabian Nights (as per How to Be a Genie in Ten Easy Lessons), a special day, Haji's Day, a once-per-calendar-year event, was set up so that Genies would have additional reason to obey and please their Masters: if they did not, as soon as the next Haji's Day rolled around, their Masters could send them back to Haji permanently (where they'd presumably receive some form of severe punishment, given how scared Jeannie was of going back). Any thoughts? Alternative explanations? |
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Post by rythmicjea on Mar 20, 2007 21:49:28 GMT -5
Where did this article come from? Are there any other references? Is there more to the story? I saw that there was "See Bewitched" at the end of the quote. And if there are episodes mentioned in the full article it could very well be one of the episodes that make it seem like Tony is a strict master. But I must agree it seems like a 15 year old wrote the article "Um, ew?!" will be a quote used in this forum for a while!
If I may put in my two sense...The whole "Master/Slave" premise isn't literal. It's an allagory for life. At the time the man was head of the household and the woman stayed at home, cleaned and had babies. But to us who love and watch the show know that Tony may have the title of "Master" but it's Jeannie who runs the show. Jeannie can put on a pretty dress and he's hooked; she can kiss him and he won't let go; and no matter how much trouble she may seem to get him into he will always cover for her. And though Tony is the man, Jeannie wears the pants (no matter how poofy they are)! It's why when she threatened to leave him if he didn't marry her in "Guess Who's Going to be a Bride (Pt 1)?" she would leave and she did, and who fought heaven and hell to get her back? Tony. And he proved as much by proposing to her by simply stating that they were getting married in public before she had a chance to make a decision (like she would say no! hehe) to me that was the last stand he took as an authority figure to her.
Does anyone here agree?
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Post by jeannietonyfan on Mar 20, 2007 22:45:37 GMT -5
Where did this article come from? Are there any other references? Is there more to the story? I saw that there was "See Bewitched" at the end of the quote. And if there are episodes mentioned in the full article it could very well be one of the episodes that make it seem like Tony is a strict master. But I must agree it seems like a 15 year old wrote the article "Um, ew?!" will be a quote used in this forum for a while! If I may put in my two sense...The whole "Master/Slave" premise isn't literal. It's an allagory for life. At the time the man was head of the household and the woman stayed at home, cleaned and had babies. But to us who love and watch the show know that Tony may have the title of "Master" but it's Jeannie who runs the show. Jeannie can put on a pretty dress and he's hooked; she can kiss him and he won't let go; and no matter how much trouble she may seem to get him into he will always cover for her. And though Tony is the man, Jeannie wears the pants (no matter how poofy they are)! It's why when she threatened to leave him if he didn't marry her in "Guess Who's Going to be a Bride (Pt 1)?" she would leave and she did, and who fought heaven and hell to get her back? Tony. And he proved as much by proposing to her by simply stating that they were getting married in public before she had a chance to make a decision (like she would say no! hehe) to me that was the last stand he took as an authority figure to her. Does anyone here agree? Yep, I completely agree with your post! Jeannie definitely wore the pants, had the power over him power-wise and sexual-wise... and I think him saying they were engaged in public was in his way his official proposal to her considering that she said after they were together again that they wouldn't have to get married, even though we ALL know that that is what Jeannie has wanted all these years, and now Tony, fully knowing how darn much she means to him, wants to be with her forever (well as long as his life... hee hee) as husband and wife too. And I think it's kind of romantic, and not really even authoritative when he does it... it's kind of him saying I love you and even though you don't say we have to be married, I know you want to, and I want to, so, I'm going to shout it from the rooftops! Well, not exactly, but you know what I mean... |
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Post by rythmicjea on Mar 21, 2007 17:07:50 GMT -5
Yep, I completely agree with your post! Jeannie definitely wore the pants, had the power over him power-wise and sexual-wise... and I think him saying they were engaged in public was in his way his official proposal to her considering that she said after they were together again that they wouldn't have to get married, even though we ALL know that that is what Jeannie has wanted all these years, and now Tony, fully knowing how darn much she means to him, wants to be with her forever (well as long as his life... hee hee) as husband and wife too. And I think it's kind of romantic, and not really even authoritative when he does it... it's kind of him saying I love you and even though you don't say we have to be married, I know you want to, and I want to, so, I'm going to shout it from the rooftops! Well, not exactly, but you know what I mean... Yes, I know what you mean, JTF. And you actually bring up an interesting subject. Can and do Genie's die? Here's what I mean. For a while I didn't get along with my grandmother (She had to raise me during my teenage years). And to me it only seemed that all my grandmother did was order my grandfather around; and he just took it. I asked my grandfather one day why he let her treat him like that. He told me that he didn't "let" her do anything. He didn't care what she said, or how she said it because he loved her. And he loves her so much that if she goes before him he will literally die of a broken heart. I feel that is how Jeannie will be when Tony dies. She said that when he is "old and gray" she will look exactly how she did the day they met, but that doesn't mean her heart won't grow older and there will be a time when she will think her time is up. There's only so much a person can take when they see everyone around them pass away. |
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Post by jeannietonyfan on Mar 21, 2007 18:10:32 GMT -5
Whenever this subject comes up, I get very sad. Here's the thing: I think it is implied that genies don't die... and so that makes it even more sad because Tony can die. I think that Jeannie, after Tony's death, would never be fully happy again. I thought that maybe Jeannie could make Tony immortal, and so they could go through life together forever. But then I thought that Tony may not want her to do that... some people think that she would go and be someone else's Master, but I don't like that idea at all...
So, I don't know, but I like to think that Jeannie would never have to go through life without Tony, because it is such a tragic thought.
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Post by Subspace on Mar 22, 2007 17:33:18 GMT -5
Where did this article come from? Are there any other references? Is there more to the story? I saw that there was "See Bewitched" at the end of the quote. And if there are episodes mentioned in the full article it could very well be one of the episodes that make it seem like Tony is a strict master. But I must agree it seems like a 15 year old wrote the article "Um, ew?!" will be a quote used in this forum for a while! LOL, yeah! "Um, ew?!"  And yes, there are a few episodes that make it seem like Tony was a real, strict Master. Perhaps, the poster only saw those episodes. I agree completely! As Barbara Eden once said, "Jeannie was a typical woman of the '60's:" she let her man (Tony) think he was in control, but she was actually the one running the show all along. |
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Post by Subspace on Mar 22, 2007 17:36:08 GMT -5
Whenever this subject comes up, I get very sad. Here's the thing: I think it is implied that genies don't die... and so that makes it even more sad because Tony can die. I think that Jeannie, after Tony's death, would never be fully happy again. I thought that maybe Jeannie could make Tony immortal, and so they could go through life together forever. But then I thought that Tony may not want her to do that... some people think that she would go and be someone else's Master, but I don't like that idea at all... So, I don't know, but I like to think that Jeannie would never have to go through life without Tony, because it is such a tragic thought. Yeah, I know. It's something I try not to think about.  I'd imagine that one of two things would be most likely: either Tony gains immortality (he might not want her to do that, but considering how much he loves her, and considering that he isn't as paranoid about her powers as, say, Darrin was about Samantha's powers, I'd say he'd go along with it); or, Jeannie gives up her powers and becomes mortal. (This latter idea is something the Jeannie Sisters used in their post- IDOJ fanfic series.) I agree that I can't imagine Jeannie ever being happy again if she kept living and being a Genie after Tony passed away. |
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Post by jeannietonyfan on Mar 22, 2007 21:30:08 GMT -5
Yeah, those sound like 2 directions that would be very likely... I think I like the idea of Tony being immortal as opposed to Jeannie becoming mortal... although to have to go through life knowing that you're always going to be alive and constantly seeing the world change (perhaps for the worst) could be depressing as well. But the idea of Jeannie having to give up her powers seems so sad to me, although I think if it meant being with Tony for eternity in the after-life, she would definitely agree to it. And I think Tony would agree to being immortal too (after giving it some serious thought of course... hee hee). But yes, it most certainly is a subject that kind of takes the fun out of the premise of the series.
This whole idea of Jeannie living forever is hinted at very briefly in "My Sister, the Homewrecker". Roger thinks that Jeannie's having an affair with Biff Jellico, and when he confronts her he says, "Jeannie you're going to have your whole life to fool around!" And then he says something like the marriage with Tony is temporary, or you have to be faithful while you're married to Tony. When Roger said that, I just couldn't picture Jeannie with anybody else, and it kind of started my mind going about this whole issue. Well, who can say right?
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Post by Subspace on Mar 23, 2007 11:33:22 GMT -5
Yeah, those sound like 2 directions that would be very likely... I think I like the idea of Tony being immortal as opposed to Jeannie becoming mortal... although to have to go through life knowing that you're always going to be alive and constantly seeing the world change (perhaps for the worst) could be depressing as well. But the idea of Jeannie having to give up her powers seems so sad to me, although I think if it meant being with Tony for eternity in the after-life, she would definitely agree to it. And I think Tony would agree to being immortal too (after giving it some serious thought of course... hee hee). But yes, it most certainly is a subject that kind of takes the fun out of the premise of the series. I know. The whole subject is something that takes the fun out of the premise... that's why I usually try not to think about it... It would be (very) sad if Jeannie became mortal... I think if there was no other option to stay with Tony, she'd do it though. I too like the idea of Tony being immortal. That latter idea sounds much more fun and uplifting than the former idea. Yeah, I guess it is the natural assumption to make. Albeit a sad one - such as the marriage to Tony being temporary. After all, she's already over 2000 years old by the 1960's... that sort of age doesn't exactly hint at a short lifespan, does it? She might not live forever, but it wouldn't be unimaginable for her to keep going, naturally, for another few thousand years or so. |
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